However, I imagined that all would probably go well as long as the government's negotiators got rid of all the bad bits of EU membership, whilst retaining all that was good.
I now learn that May's draft declaration contains a very determined clause to end 'freedom of movement'.
So, what will this mean to all those EU citizens living in the UK, and to all those UK citizens living throughout mainland Europe? Our village Mayor has already joked about us being kicked out in 2020; presumably along with the other 1.3 Million UK born citizens who live in France, Spain, Italy, etc.
Will we no longer be able to live in our own homes, other than for just a couple of months each year? Will we need a visa to visit our own homes? Will we still be obliged to pay the full 12 months house taxes, even though we are banned from full-time residency?
Will our insurance policies pay-up on burgled properties that are unoccupied? Will squatters be removable? Will the police do anything to protect the huge number of foreign owned properties?
I know of plenty of unwise ex-pats who have burnt their bridges, and have no home back in the UK. Their homes here are practically unsaleable, but even if they did find a buyer, it would hardly buy them a garage back in the UK. Will social services be finding homes for all these people?
Many will shrug their shoulders, and say 'it's their own bloody fault'.
Fortunately we do have homes back in the UK, and are solvent enough to simply lock the doors here, and walk away; never to return. As long as I could fill the car with various paintings, antiques, and essential documents, I could drive away and stick two fingers up at the whole effing lot of them, and in future spend all my money back in its country of origin; but the people I feel most sorry for are those who literally have nothing to go back to.
If this is how Brexit will end-up, I bloody despair; although I quite fancy the idea of free health care again.
At least you were already thinking of spending the winters in the U.K. and, as you say, you will have free health care although I thought you got that in France.
ReplyDeleteAre you not a French citizen?
No, just a resident. No free health care here; they hold their hands out at every opportunity, yet when they visit the UK, it's all FREE. That's Europe for you.
DeleteI wonder about my English friends here. There are some who have 30 years plus and no reason to return to england.i think those who own houses are ok, will have to apply for a resident permit though. Any paper work here is a nightmare
ReplyDeleteThey are already in the greek tax system but whether they will be paying more is a mystery and will probably continue to be so. It is near impossible to get accurate info
Good luck to you all
The finer details are being kept vague. We have been here for 46 years, but we are, of course, still 'foreigners'.
DeleteThere was a survey in today's Kronen Zeitung the most popular daily tabloid in Austria which asked "Will you miss the Brits after Brexit?" 76% answered NO.
ReplyDeleteBut whatever happens we are more fortunate than many in the world, for example the 108 Iranian Christians stranded in Austria for 2 years, whose plight was only brought to light today. One is so fed up of waiting for a decision and missing his children he is thinking of returning to Iran despite death threats hanging over him.
In Pakistan the Christian woman who worked in the fields who drank water from the wrong cup on a hot day and served 8 years for blasphemy. Where can she go? It seems May's UK doesn't want her. She's welcome in Italy says Salvini. Hope she can get there.
Certain government decisions totally baffle me. Why this poor Pakistani woman, and her family, should not be given safe haven in Britain (when they accept all sorts of rogues) seems pure lunacy. I'm still waiting to hear their reasoning.
DeleteIt's certainly going to be a difficult time for many. Free health care is one thing - but think of the effect those awful winters will have on all those 'now very much older' chests.
ReplyDeleteI actually don't look forward to 'push-button' heating. I like all the sawing, ash, mess, etc. It feels so much healthier than gas or oil.
DeleteSurely you could buy a property in the country where you have a wood burning stove
DeleteIt's already an idea!
DeleteI am afraid Mrs May is incompetent, stubborn and terrified of leaving the EU. Her deal reflects this and protects big business and the city. Her obsession with migration is supposed to be a sop to the Brexit voters, which shows that she and her advisors have misunderstood that issue as well.
ReplyDeleteWith a bit of luck the deal will come unstuck, because if it goes through I suspect that the net result will be chaos, particularly when we eventually get an election.
I'm currently listening to Jacob Rees-Mogg on LBC radio..... he talks a lot of sense.
DeleteIt may not be a good thing, but you are certainly living in interesting times.
ReplyDeleteThat expression (interesting times) usually means 'chaos'
DeleteI've a few "ex-pat" friends...most have decided to put down roots where they are
ReplyDeleteI have two children (and 4 grandsons) who live in Oz. They are now all 'Aussies', but it's not quite the same in Europe.
DeleteBrexit wasn't the sole reason for us moving back to the UK but we were worried about only being able to live in our house for 90 days at a time. It just wouldn't have worked for us.
ReplyDeleteIs that what they'll allow us; three months? Sounds ridiculous!
Deleteblocks of three months...with a short break in between...sounds do-able
DeleteI may just ignore it.
DeleteWe owe nothing to ex pats.
ReplyDeleteExactly, but just wait until they all turn up wanting accomodation, health care, benefits, etc.
DeleteI don't consider myself an "ex-pat". I actually loathe the term.
DeleteI hold dual citizenship in Canada and the UK. If I enter the UK using my Canadian passport it is stamped that I may remain for six months and am not eligible for anything publicly funded. Yet, I am still a citizen but someone from the EU with not actual ties to the UK can come and be permitted access?
I voted to remain and now find it all so laborious to listen to that I try to ignore it. I shall be surprised if MPs vote for it in its present form.
ReplyDeleteIt's such a mess, I'll be glad when it's all over; whatever the result.
DeleteThis brexit business is to me quite similar to the fall of Athens just after at the death of Socrates.
ReplyDeleteAs an ex pat of thirty years,well we will just have to wait and see... until the fine print has been deciphered.
The fact that such things are reciprocal, I would have thought that the EU would have defended their own citizens rights.
DeleteMany expats are in for a big shock as to what they can actually claim. Many have been abroad for over a decade having paid zero UK tax or NI.
ReplyDeleteThe deal May has struck is the best the EU will allow not the UK and the EU have been intransigent for the last two years.
I seriously doubt that it will pass parliament and a hard brexit lies in the future. France and Spain seem determined to spoil their export markets, tourist markets and expat communities all in one go. Apart from the latter the UK has an entire world to choose from.
I'm also unsure how the Netherlands will cope with the sudden cessation of oil exports from the UK as it imports some 14 million metric tons a year from us.
I didn't know about the oil. There are so many imports/exports that keep the wheels turning, that I fail to understand any wish to hinder such movements.
DeleteThe world, on the whole, is a mess.
ReplyDeleteIt all seems to be building-up to something. WW3 perhaps?
DeleteI'm not sure where everyone else is getting their information from, but those who have lived in either a rump EU country or the UK will have their rights of residence guaranteed. The end to freedom of movements means no more benefits tourism and no more jumping on a plane to find work without a visa. In your case, Cro, the EU has made a commitment that you will be able to carry on as normal.
ReplyDeleteI hope you're right. I was under the impression that after 2020 we would only be allowed to be here for X amount of months per year.
DeleteThe right to remain was agreed as part of the "pre-negotiation". The conditions are as per those set out by Vintage Maison below - so you should be fine. And I agree with Vintage Maison's assessment of the French property market, for what it's worth.
DeleteThis is also how we see it also... My cousins and their families live in Italy and have come to the conclusion from what they were told that they will be able to apply for a permit to stay. Maybe like the old one in France, carte de sejour. Where they live if all of the foreigners are sent home there will be no one in the school but the teacher as all the younger people have moved to the cities. There will be hardly anyone left in the village. There are 2 Dutch couples (no families) but the rest are Brit families with great grand parents that were Italian. They are hoping that they can use this proof as being able to apply for Italian citizenship and with it an EU passport. If not it is going to hurt all economies. Think of all the areas in France and Spain with huge amounts of Brit pensioners spending their cash. They will become waste lands as they are already suffering as the pound is so weak against the Euro. Sad times. Having such a mixed heritage as my own, I do worry where we fit. where does it stop, firstly a vote based on people saying about immigration. What is next after Brexit? It is very worrying...
DeleteI have already been invited to become a French citizen... I told them I'd think about it.
Deletef you have lived in France for 5 years or more - and can prove it by way of avis de impots, EDF bills, bank statements, ownership of property or rent agreement, health care, birth and marriage certificates and finally, agree to be finger printed, then all this will be yours Cro! I object most strongly and wonder what the French govt might say if we donned gilet jaunes, refused to fill in any forms, all put our homes up for sale, and threatened to go back to Blighty...the French housing market might crash for starters. However, knowing a little (and I mean a little - can't always read between the lines) about the way the French work, it would not make the blindest bit of difference. They couldn't care that they would lose our revenue and taxes - we just wouldn't fit neatly into any of their holes!
ReplyDeleteAs we all know, the French agree to things, then do what they want with impunity. I think we'll all just have to wait and see.
DeleteI did wonder how you got to vote on Brexit and I was refused a vote!!! I remember being told by someone "my uncle Tom in Canada didn't get to vote so why should you?" To which I asked if uncle Tom was going to be kicked out of Canada because of Brexit. It pissed me off no end that people who would be so intimately affected didn't even get the right to vote. The funny thing was a friend of a friend in the UK (who voted leave) then telling me about their plans to move to Spain! Oh well. But James is right - those of us who have been in the EU countries for more than 5 years have been guaranteed right of abode. Thank God. I've been here in France 30 years and my sons have only ever known France as home but we were told that they didn't "need" to apply for French citizenship since they had British passports. I guess it's time to get going on the citizenship paperwork (or at the very least check out what they now need for a carte de séjour). What a bloody mess. But I honestly don't think it's fair to blame Theresa May. No-one is going to get 100% of what they want so there will have to be compromise - and I guess no-one will like the compromises either. I don't see Boris the slippery eel volunteering to sort it out - he's too busy grandstanding isn't he.
ReplyDeleteI agree Treaders, May has been left to pick up the crap. Cameron played a stupid game and lost. And had to resign as result. Is there anyone else that would have got any better? I doubt it. Everyone wants to be seen as a hero. Macron and his we will block the ports, damning his own economy and northern parts of France whose main income is from trade. Juncker and his Thatcher lines are near enough "this lady is not for turning". No one is going to be happy and it could be that we still bottom out with no deal. Iceland came back from the brink, lets hope we dont go that low.
DeleteI've still got my old Carte de Séjour from 1972 somewhere; maybe I could have it updated?
DeleteTHANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR INFO. LOOKS AS IF MY WORRIES WERE UNFOUNDED.... WE'll SEE.
ReplyDeleteOh My Goodness, I hope all will be OK for you.
ReplyDeletecheers, parsnip and badger