I was reading that the UK's famous 'left-wing comedian' Frank Skinner had recently consciously avoided helping an attractive young woman at an airport who was obviously struggling with her heavy suitcase. He was worried that it could be seen as harassment, and wreck his career. It reminded me of an incident several years ago.
I was on my way (alone) shopping when I came across a car by the side of the road; a woman was standing by looking at a flat tyre. Although I didn't know her, I recognised the woman as being from my village.
Of course I stopped and offered to help, and after about 20 minutes managed to replace her wheel, and send her on her way.
So, would I do the same thing today? If I was by myself (as I had been) CERTAINLY NOT; I would drive straight past. However, if Lady Magnon was with me I might, even though doing such things these days is not as easy for me as it once was.
The 'Me too' movement has made men think again about chivalry; whereas once we would not hesitate about helping a damsel in distress, these days you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would.
Personally I find this very sad. I'm sure the 'Me too' founders didn't foresee this, but it's a natural consequence of what they started. As we all know, accusations against innocent men for the most innocuous of actions has now become endemic; not unlike mentioning the name of a certain 'Duchess' and being instantly accused of 'racism'.
Being caring towards women is sadly something we men are no longer permitted to do (you'd do so at your peril), and most men will be sympathetic with Frank Skinner's reluctance.
A modern by-product, of an otherwise very good cause.
Welcome to the 21st Century.
44 comments:
Being caring to women is something I am no longer able to do. I work with a sixteen year old who has more strength than I have and she's about six stone wet through.
I hate it. I've always been to type to offer my seat on the tube, to open doors, and offer to help, but these days everything is 'intentionally' taken the wrong way, so I keep well clear.
As a woman I would be grateful for your help to change a tyre but wary as a woman alone. That is only because I've been had experiences of being physically assaulted, being followed home and verbally abused in the past.
Opening doors and offering seats to me is a great kindness and to me shows good manners.
I don't believe all woman are out to accuse every man. it is just that you opening the door or offering to change a tyre is not an invitation for any other type of attention and some men don't understand that.
Julie
When asking 'May I help you with your bags?' it's not pleasant to receive the reply 'Why; do I look incapable?'. Older people are still polite, but some of the younger ones are appalling.
My husband has been expressing similar thoughts in the last few years. He would help anyone, or, rather, he would have helped anyone. I find it sad that it has come to this.
Many years ago I drove a yellow Renault 4. I had a flat on the way to work, and a total stranger stopped and changed the wheel. His reason? His wife had a Renault 4 and he figured he knew better than most how to get at the spare wheel etc. A man being kind to a young woman!
I've not yet lost the plot completely. But sadly at times I feel I'm on the way having been rebuked (surprisingly often it must be said) for a common courtesy that comes to me naturally due to my upbringing such as holding a door open for a woman. These days I have to 'weigh up' the person and make an instant judgement as to the likely reaction (will it be offensive or also courteous) before deciding if I should be courteous in the first instance. This state of affairs is very very sad.
A difficult one. If I were stranded, alone in the dark I would be very grateful for any kind offers of help. On the other hand I would feel very vulnerable should the offer come from one of the bad guys.
It IS sad. We were all going along very well, being kind to one another, helping where we could; now we are suddenly made to feel almost guilty to talk to anyone.
Everything is just out of hand isn't it?.
If Tom and I were to meet and today as we did years ago he would be called a pedophile, I was 15 and he 21 when we met.
Let's not forget that I started work at 15 and was not considered a child.
Briony
x
It"s a bit easy to refuse the me too debate to the changing and shopping bags. Women know very well the difference between help and harassement. So please you dhould be more impartial.
Frank Skinner, who I am well aware of, is a leftie? News to me. Seriously rich I think. While I understand what you are saying, I don't think helping anyone on the roadside could be misinterpreted. Me helping a lost young girl in one of our public gardens to find her parents could be misinterpreted, and I didn't.
The whole world has been wrecked by good intentions, by the few because of the few. If you have a different opinion nowadays you are accused of all sorts of nasty things. Our children will grow up petrified to have an opinion at all at this rate!
I struggled to change a back wheel on my car, in the dark, on a busy road. I was just starting to tighten the wheel nuts up when someone stopped to help. Nice of the woman to stop behind me so I could see what I was doing.
It would very much be a matter of 'weighing-up' the person involved. I'm sure I would still hold that door for a pleasant looking woman with a pushchair, but probably not for a nasty looking one with several screaming brats.
It's become so difficult for us these days.
Several years ago I saved a small local boy from a couple of vicious dogs. My English friends were horrified that I'd rescued him.
Tell that to Frank Skinner!
Normally he would be at the barricades with the 'me too' women, but even he (which is why I mentioned his politics) found himself at odds.
And be petrified to approach a member of the opposite sex (without a contract in triplicate)
The last wheel I changed was in my supermarket car park; in the rain. No-one came to my assistance.
I hope I would offer help to anyone if I could, but in the "lady in distress" scenario I'd try to make sure I offered in a non-threatening way. These days, though, the vulnerable lady might be play acting in order to mug you.
Bishop Peter Ball offered everything in a non-threatening way.
I'm afraid that happens all too often; probably with a couple of mates hidden somewhere.
At least he spent a short while in prison.
These make such interesting reading to me, an eighty seven year old with severe mobility problems. When I shop - as I do every Tuesday morning - in our local supermarket I always ask at the check out if I can have someone help me take my shopping across the road to my car. I always add - make it a nice young man please and I always get one as it has become a standing joke. I wonder whether the same would be true if I were a man asking for a pretty young lady - somehow I doubt it.
I am in two minds whether to stick my neck out here. Never mind. You know me. On my head be it. What's the worst that can happen? My being jumped?
Frank Skinner? In a public place? Too "scared" to help an "attractive young woman"? So, presumably he'd have helped a not so attractive old woman? Oh dear, Cro, I shouldn't be laughing but his tale is too pathetic not to.
Well, not so dear Frank Skinner, once upon a time men were men and some of them still are. May I wager that you never were much of one?
To put things in general into perspective, Cro, just as most men are good guys most women don't cry wolf when someone opens a door for them or, heaven forbid, changes a tire - naturally, on a dead country road, in the middle of the night, rain pouring down. Enter the elusive axe murderer. No, a spanner will do.
I do think the movement you refer to (#me too) has gone too far in as much as a lot of publicity can be made from titillating headlines like the Skinner one. Let that not deter us from being the caring helpful person we all hope to be, and all hope to encounter. No man in my circle and that includes not least my son are in the least reluctant to give up a seat, offer a lift, help "an attractive young lady" (like myself, a few years ago, with two broken arms and a bandaged leg - long story) across the road. More anecdotal evidence that both, men and women, are not on a mission to destroy each other, up my sleeve.
Sure you need to cover your back in what could prove a hairy situation - but not those you describe. I think the me too hysteria a cheap cop out for guys to "refuse" themselves. I'd attribute it more to laziness than anything else.
However, and then I shut up, here is an heart rending example of the kind you are referring to, and it shook me to the core. A few years ago, an anguished looking man, on the high street, asked me to help him out. He'd come across this tiny kid, crying, lost. His first instinct, let's assume, to pick up the little boy. He didn't. With all the pedo hysteria (as if they didn't exist in our time) he wanted me (woman) to do what needed to be done. Effing hell, Cro. I felt so sorry for him. And society. A society which only ever sees the bad rather than concentrate on the largely good in people. I comforted them both, boy and man.
Ever expansive yours,
U
Why were they horrified? I can't see any harm in that from any angle.
"A society which only ever sees the bad rather than concentrate on the largely good". Think I am with Ursula on this one.
It is a bit like the gypsy/traveller argument. There is a knife sharpener with his gypsy waggon, caravan, three ponies and young sons who always camp round the verges of the lanes round here. No mess in sight, who brings them water, could it be the farmers on whose land they camp by? Trust is always better than distrust.
Jeez! My heart bleeds for you. Maybe if you didn't view women as damsels in distress but just as fellow humans who might need a hand, then we could all help each other out.
I doubt it very much.
I don't think laziness comes into it. I never expect a thank you, or even a smile, when offering my seat to someone on the tube, or bus. It was done simply because I was brought-up that way. These days the seat would still be accepted, but with sneers from all around; even a few nasty comments. It's easier just the keep the seat.
I did say that 'Gypsies' are a different group altogether. It's the so-called 'travellers' who create all the mess. Look again at the video, and you will actually see their own caravans in the background. They are quite happy to bring back all their rubbish to where they live, and dump it a few metres away. If you see that as OK, I really don't know what more to say!
I'm afraid that's not the case any more Rosa. Women are objecting to things like having a quicker queue pointed out to them by men who are only trying to be helpful, as well as accusing men of being sexist for holding doors open or daring to offer seats on the tube.
(And I'm a female!)
This is an interesting one. I'm not sure if I've posted about it or not. I've certainly drafted a post a few times.
On the whole I'm with Ursula although I don't think Frank Skinner would be being lazy. If, however, she turned out to be the wrong person then he's be a prime target for some bad publicity.
Like you, Cro, I was brought up to walk on the outside (that has gone down badly on occasion as patronising) and offer a seat on a bus etc. Now I'm at an age when the occasionally well dragged up youngster offers me a seat.
A lady came to my house today to fit an alarm. When she left I helped her on with her coat. She didn't slap my face.
I shall not 'do an Ursula' with a long comment but I shall post on the subject on Eagleton Notes soon.
The purpose of this post was really to demonstrate how a perfectly understandable movement (me too) can provoke an unexpected response; which certainly has been the case. No doubt a certain amount of misandry was at the core of the movement, but I'm sure it wasn't its aim.
They thought the very idea of putting a small boy in my car, and driving to his home, was putting myself in a very dangerous situation. The fact that it was even mentioned (I had been on my way to a dinner party) worried me hugely.
WOW! I can see at once that you are a classic 'Me too' activist. Where does this misandry come from? I feel sorry for you.
I had a gentleman tip his hat to me the other day as he walked past. Don't see that very often these days, old fashioned chivalry!It felt really nice(and I was with my husband at the time.
Would you help a man in distress at the side of the road?
I still do!
Not if he looked able to help himself.
I am at the age now where I am not prepared to tolerate anyone who is not intrinsically kind, well mannered, and civilised. As you can imagine I don't know many people:)
Good for you. I feel much the same. However, as someone who was brought-up to be well mannered, I do find it sad when it's rejected.
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