What will happen when our governments decide to relax their rules on lockdown?
Obviously people will leave their homes much more. They will go to the shops, to pubs, to restaurants, to concerts, and possibly to large sporting events. In fact they will go anywhere where people tend to gather in crowds.
The only question will be, is this the best way to stop the spread of COVID-19?
Is allowing people to mingle again socially, rather than staying at home, really the best way to halt its spread?
People are going 'stir crazy'; that is for sure. They want their liberty, and they want to get back to meeting their friends again; but if it's at a heightened chance of spreading or catching the virus, is it really worth the risk?
Gathering in crowds again is certainly NOT going to 'reduce' the risks, what one doesn't know is, if it'll increase them. Only time will tell.
So, what will I be doing when things are more relaxed? I shall continue as I am now; I shall wear a mask when around others, I shall only go shopping once every two weeks, and I shall continue to avoid as many people as possible.
That is what we shall be doing. At this new relaxed stage here there are more businesses open but one is still meant to stay home and not socialise. Clubs, bars, cafes, libraries and the market will not be open for a while and I am not very keen on going to them except, perhaps the library and market.
ReplyDeletePeople shouldn't be in a rush to mingle again too soon. Germany tried, and regretted.
DeleteThe lockdown is the worst form of oppression. Freedom is priceless, all this is about government muscle flexing. If individuals wish to isolate then that is fine but it should not be imposed on everyone.
ReplyDeleteBut those who chose not to do so will be taking the very real risk of harming, possibly killing, others. Gracious sakes, it is beyond foolish to value freedom above life.
DeleteThere comes a time when life becomes worthless. How can my exercising freedom affect someone who isolates?
DeleteSurely, Adrian, it's a question of choice. If one wishes the least chance of contracting COVID-19; then stay at home. If one really isn't fussed; go to the Pub', to McDonald's, or to a Football match. The choice is yours.
DeleteI said choice is paramount. I have made mine but have no problem with folk choosing a different path.
DeleteThe choice is not just about yourself, it's about not harming others.
DeleteIt's not about myself.
DeleteWho am I harming Jean? Old folk round here have been frightened. I am shopping for the poor souls. If you want to starve then so be it. Some folk will believe anything but even though I think you silly if you asked for water I'd get you some.
Adrian, I am so sorry. I referred to you further down on this thread (in agreement, would you believe it) only to just realize that I called you Andrew. Will you forgive me?
DeleteU
The lifting of lockdown in the UK will be gradual and not all or nothing. It will not be as your post infers. Social events and gatherings will be the last things to emerge and not as we know them.
ReplyDeleteBut it will happen; just as it did in Germany. Luckily they realised their mistake quite quickly.
DeleteThe world is being led by fear which is unfounded.
DeleteThat fear is quite warranted. With over 20,000 now dead, it looks pretty serious to me. There are still no cases in our area, but it would really shock me if there were.
DeleteHow can you be sure there are no cases in your area? Behind closed doors in domestic situations there could easily be cases. For the majority of people it is a mild illness.
DeleteSame here Cro, in fact same as normal for us anyway! We never did frequent coffee shops and bars etc being a couple of anti-social buggers!
ReplyDeleteI must say, other than shopping once a week (I now go every two weeks), nothing much has changed. We very rarely used to go to restaurants in winter, and we don't really do bars any more either. As for coffee shops; their aren't any.
DeleteI don't believe that this virus will ever disappear completely, the best we can hope for is an immunisation injection that works, which is probably a long time into the future.
ReplyDeleteIt would be impractical to keep the world locked down until this happens, so restrictions will have to be lifted in stages. At that point it becomes the choice of the individual whether to take the risk or continue isolation.
Personally I'm quite prepared to continue in isolation until such time as it's deemed safe to re-connect with the world.
And just for the record I'm not an anti-social recluse, we've had 4 foreign holidays cancelled and I miss my 4 nights a week pub attendance and weekly visits to friends.
I agree with you totally, but I am something of a self-confessed recluse. I enjoy my shopping trips because I like to eat good things, but for everything else I usually wait till Summer.
DeleteYes Cro, I also miss my shopping trips, fortunately we had a very full freezer and a son who is happy to deliver non-freezable necessities. Bread flour was missing from the shelves for a few weeks but a friend managed to get some and dropped me a couple of bags off.
DeleteI feel like we are living in a giant open prison. I dread to think how many lonely people are feeling at the moment. The poor old soul who misses a pint and a chat or a 'nice' cup of tea in the local cafe, a walk round the carboot sale, a browse in the charity shop..? We can't all afford to stay at home and earn no money. There will be a major recession and pubs and hotels will never open again.
ReplyDeleteIt will be a very different world when, or if, COVID is controlled. Those failing High Streets will have failed, and most of the old fashioned, pre-gastropub, boozers will have closed for ever.
DeletePersonally, my life will change very little when lockdown is eased. The health issues which have kept me home for 20+ years will not have disappeared.
ReplyDeleteEventually we will have statistics for those who have died from Covid 19, and it seems that age, underlying health problems, obesity, diabetes, lung problems are already being cited. People in those groups will obviously be at greater risk, and may want to take more care. Others may be prepared to take their chances, but the issue then is who might they pass it on to.
We know that people can be 'carriers' without showing symptoms, so any activity where people are in large numbers could be fatal. Best, I think, to be very cautious and wait for a vaccine.
DeleteI am with cumbrian, above, whose post could have been about me. Here, some restrictions have been eased with regard to certain business sectors returning to work but we are still maintaining the social distancing laws. Our number of cases has dropped but our border is still closed with no visitors allowed to enter. Once that changes then it seems very obvious that our infection rate will start to rise again. As northsider says, the longer this goes on, the more it will hurt those who can least afford it. But what is the solution? I don't know.
ReplyDeleteOn a smallish island, you are in a better place than most to control your borders. I think you should remain closed until any new visitors can prove they are virus free.
DeleteAll I would like is for our family to meet together in our homes, have cuddles and laughter.............it's not much, but enough for me.
ReplyDeleteWe do it by Skype. Not the same, I know, but we speak regularly and it keeps us up to date with everything.
DeleteTo ease the lockdown is going to be a leap of faith ....... no one knows how to do it or what will happen. As soon as lockdown is eased, we will be flying blind like many other countries have been already. Germany eased lockdown and deaths rose .... I think what comes next is very far away. I’m afraid that we are all somewhat in the dark and I don’t think the U.K. will lift its lockdown for many weeks. XXXX
ReplyDeleteI think the daily amount of deaths needs to be drastically reduced before they start to relax the rules. Meanwhile the economy will simply have to suffer.
DeleteAs you have not been out much in the car for shopping you may not have seen there are far fewer cars on the roads. I notice that I have been driving with a greater distace between me and the vehicle in front. Sort of Social Car Distancing. I'm very much in agreement with Northsider on the open prison! Lesley
ReplyDeleteWhen I last went out, I noticed a distinct lack of both cars and people. Rather nice.
DeleteUntil there is an effective vaccine the danger will persist. I don't want to die just yet so like you I will be playing it safe until I get the jab... if they can come up with one! And that remains a big "if".
ReplyDeleteI suspect that we are not alone. I would think that most people (who can) will be twiddling their thumbs waiting for that vaccine.
DeleteThe wait will be longer than your lifespan. Not yet found a vaccine for the common cold. Just get on with life and enjoy it for what it is. Humans have to learn that we will all die and to die with dignity is something that requires; well dignity and not reliance on the state.
DeleteWe will be very reluctant to take up the old "freedoms" when lockdown is lifted, however gradually. The virus isn't going to miraculously disappear and it will be more dangerous than ever once people are unknowingly spreading it. At our age we have a good chance of not surviving if we become infected so it's simply not worth the risk. It's hard for everyone, some more than others but it's all about getting through it and not becoming a statistic.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. I shall continue as I have for the past few weeks.
DeleteI agree particularly with Andrew Ward. Also Rachel, YP and others arguing in a similar vein.
ReplyDeleteEven within this crisis we need, as Andrew argues, a certain amount of "agency", some sort of allusion to personal freedom. This does not least apply to "old" people, poor sausages, who are locked away on grounds of AGE, be it in their own homes or a care home. The individual's health, fitness, who cares? As long as you fit the age demographic let them rot. Die alone. Eventually. It's cruel and stupid beyond words.
Think about it: Old people being cut off from family for whose good exactly? The old so they don't run the negligible risk of dying slightly prematurely? In the meantime they are "allowed" to "enjoy" a miserable and lonely existence? Thanks. Grand. That's the way to go. There are already many who voice concerns how the older are being ostracized (I am talking about England), side lined - with no real emotional care for them. How is it possible that care workers come and go, yet your own son or daughter is prevented to visit you. Not even in your home? It's shite, Cro. And yes, I do feel passionately about it, despite or maybe BECAUSE I don't yet fall into that age group who can be incarcerated by decree and curtain twitchers.
On a lighter, and more humane note, the Angel told me only yesterday that wild horses wouldn't keep him away from me. Sweet. Same here.
As to the wider population, and as Rachel points out, loosening the lockdown will be more than gradual. Those pubs, football games, large gatherings, etc. you conjure up won't happen for a long time. Not till a vaccine has materialized. In the meantime let's be sensible, not tie ourselves into knots, feed on some sort of mass hysteria.
U
Here in France people are rioting in the streets to demand that things return to 'normal'. In the UK people are less vocal, but they can be seen en masse on the roads, in parks, and at their local B & Q. As I replied to Andrew, it's a matter of choice; to put yourself in a position of danger, or not.
DeleteDon't know where you get your information from. The city I live in, South Coast of England - university city no less, lots and lots of youngsters of many a nationality - seems remarkably disciplined. There are no people "en masse on the roads, in parks, …" Social distancing is observed to the point that everywhere is empty, and if you do go somewhere (say a supermarket) everyone does a slalom around each other.
DeleteIt is so very telling, and please do not take this as an affront, that you then proceed to say that the matter of choice is whether "you put YOURSELF in a position of danger, or not". Can't you see the irony? It's not about OUR selves. If it were then we'd have free agency. It's about OTHERS. Consideration for them.
Choice. Exactly. Do barricade yourself in, or go out within the parameters of civilized behaviour.
You probably can't see it, Cro, neither some of your readers: That you are alright Jack and find it easy to follow the "guidelines" is because you are just continuing, uninterrupted, a lifestyle you already are used to. It doesn't impinge on YOU that there are people who are banned from just visiting their park - despite no one else being around. At five in the morning. Count yourself lucky if you have a dog. As excuses go dogs do just fine. You and some of your chums sit in the middle of nowhere with your Haddocks greenery. There is a wider world out there. A more crowded world with true challenges. And the world is not just about YOU, the lucky ones. I am one of the lucky ones in as much as I do have a well developed conscience, and I act accordingly. Smugness will not do in these dire times.
U
Yesterday there were traffic jams on the M25. I should add that my (when I'm there) South Coast, University City, is all over the papers showing crowds of people on the Prom'. You do seem to be very blinkered. The only reason you accuse me of being all right Jack, is because I do follow the best scientific advice. If I didn't I'd probably be dead by now.
DeleteTomorrow I will drive to my grandchildren and bring them sweets, I have not seen them in two months, I will reach them and sit in the distance outside.I think I'm not allowed to cross 35km to them, but I'll do it anyway.
ReplyDeleteIt's a very sad situation, but I suppose the distancing works for both you and them. I don't envy you.
DeleteThe relaxing of rules will be a slow process. It won't be a sudden opening of everything. Cafes will reopen with social distance seating. The same for pubs.
ReplyDeleteThe rules are one thing, practicality is another. This is why Germany had to return to their original lockdown.
DeleteAs from Monday we will have relaxation. No need for permits and IDs. 3 people allowed in one car instead of 2. All concerts, theatre and summer gatherings cancelled. Later there will be sorting events with no spectators. Masks to be worn inside in all public areas or a big fine.
ReplyDelete1 June tavernas and cafes open but with tables at 2 metre distance .
I'm sure everyone will do what the want, as they have done around here all this time.
At least the island has another month of isolation, then the hordes will slowly reappear
Oh and from September we will all be in isolation again....so they say
DeleteSo, the relaxation is simply temporary? That's very bizarre. How are the Greeks at being told what to do? Over here people love to go against the government, even if it's for their own good.
DeleteThey have to do what they're told in the big cities because there are checks and big fines. Here everyone just scoffs and does what they want.
DeleteKeeping an eye out though!
I agree with you. I am a social being and the lockdown is very hard, but if I ignore science and go about as I once did, I could get it and probably spread it to the people I love and care about. As difficult as it is, I am in it until something is found to either treat this illness or a vaccine. We have lots of hope in the folks at Oxford.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your attitude. It is such a tricky virus, no-one knows who's infecting who; and where. Best to be on the safe side.
DeleteAll I can see here s is't a Me me thing. Fair enough. We have had far worse.
ReplyDeleteMost people will look after their own interests first; especially when it comes to life and death.
DeletePeople are frightened. It's no way to live. I am shopping for five houses and it's a right pain. I'm not a very good shopper. Or so I am told. I couldn't care one way or the other I have managed to reach my three score ad ten. I doubt this will get me.
DeleteMixed feelings. One son is an "essential worker" and we haven't seen him for 6+ weeks. DH and another son working from home. Our county numbers have been low. Hospitals mostly empty. A 900+ bed emergency overflow facility unused. Lots of small businesses here with many going under, all schools closed and thousands out of work. We'll continue as we have been (ourselves), but things can't go on indefinitely as they are for the majority, else there'll be nothing left to reopen and recover.
ReplyDeleteWe have just this minute spoken to our two Europe based sons (my daughter is down under), and they are both OK, but with very different attitudes. One takes it very seriously, the other thinks it's one big hoax. It takes all sorts.
DeleteI feel the same Cro.
ReplyDeleteFor fear of annoying two commentators above; I think you are very wise.
DeleteAs I have understood it, the reason for social distancing has been to slow the spread so hospitals can keep up. It is true we may all someday catch COVID but if this time will help develop better treatments and keep the hospitals from becoming overcrowded than it has served a very good purpose. Your area may have few cases because the social distancing worked. Stay safe!
ReplyDeleteOur 'social distancing' is because we live way out in the countryside. We have a few neighbours, but they live like us!
DeleteEvery pandemic in history has come in waves..the only reason we have been able to reduce it is by the internet.
ReplyDeleteThis one seems to have been spread by air travel but also made worse by the pollution both of air travel and industry.
Something for us to consider as we carry on.
The 1918 pandemic, which killed up to 50 Million people, was before the days of cheap travel. Restrictions on Tom Dick or Harry turning up at Heathrow, should have been in place much earlier. Too late now!
DeleteThe Big Question, is... How to re-integrate back to *normal* life???? And I don't think *normal* will fully return but that's a whole other "can of worms."
ReplyDeleteI'm no expert, but it seems, it would be best, to do so, in increments. If they open restaurants, only open them, to a certain number of people... To insure distancing, in seating.
But don't open bar-type-establishments. Because there is no way to have spacing, with people who are there-to-drink. -grin-
But everyone, will have their own ideas. And thus, no decisions, can please everyone!!!!
Same here, we are not going out, just to go out. Only necessary medical things.
We are simply still in the should-be-worried category. And will be our own kind of wise.
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I shall continue to follow the government advice (on radio and TV constantly) and STAY HOME to SAVE LIVES. One or two above are determined to ignore this advice, which I find worrying; but that's how illness spreads.
DeleteWell as someone who has compromised lungs I am keeping my distance and wear a mask when I am out getting the shopping for 2 elderly ill people in my community. I take a list and work fast. I do not want to catch a virus that is apparently 1000 times more virulent than the SAR's virus. You are wise to be cautious.
ReplyDeleteJo in Auckland
I think the wisdom is in not spreading the virus as it already has been. Those who wish to return to some form of normality are putting everyone else at risk.
DeleteI intend to climb the mountain behind my house - and after that who knows. I'll just be glad to be able to go out without my attestation.
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