Friday 28 February 2020

Why I'm not religious, but why I would quite liked to have been.



I have always thought that the protestant church missed out on a great opportunity by not having veered towards becoming a philosophical movement, rather than staying as a doctrinal one.

I don't think many people truly believe in all religion's invisible spooks and spells; I know that most priests certainly don't. The small amount of people who still attend Sunday services, go for the ceremony, the pantomime, and the camaraderie; not for gods and devils. There is a feel-good factor amongst church attendees. It makes them feel like 'good people'. They certainly don't attend for the mumbo-jumbo.

Personally I love the architecture, the music, and much of the ceremonial, but there is no place for me within the established church because, like most, I can't accept the nonsense about gods, devils, heaven, hell, souls, angels, goblins, and virgin births; as well as one of the most off putting rites, the quasi-cannibalistic ceremony of eating flesh and drinking blood, which I find to be quite evil and disturbing.

When first visiting towns or cities, one of my favourite initial destinations is the church or cathedral; on the strict condition that they are ancient. I have little time for modern churches, although there are one or two rare exceptions.

An ancient church will tell you more about a locality than any museum, and therefore becomes the essential hub of any community.

The lovely church in my illustration is in the Surrey village were I was born. It is where my people were married, and also where I sang in the choir. This church, as well as the cathedral where I was at school, had a profound effect on my earlier life. I loved both of them (and still do), but their adherence to all the mumbo-jumbo keeps me from their doors.... other than at Christmas when I might still attend a Carol Service, simply for the pleasure of singing.



40 comments:

  1. The lovely church where I was baptised.

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    1. A beautiful church, inside and out. Lovely village too, apart from all the aircraft noise from Gatwick.

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  2. We non religious people are conflicted. I think the social aspect of attending church must be quite good, never so many architecturally wonderful churches and cathedrals.

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    1. I have always liked everything about it; EXCEPT, of course, the nonsense.

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  3. People attend church for many reasons, as you suggest in your post. Being part of a community, a sense of belonging, singing, ceremony etc. We have many churches around here and I love to visit them, but prefer to go when there is not a service. I can't stand the hugging that has become part of the C of E service today. I like to remain anonymous and alone during the service. Perhaps this widening of reasons to attend church to be part of the community is partly to blame for all the hugging of each other. God no longer is of paramount importance.

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    1. So, why don't they 'embrace' that, and become more like Buddhism, or Jainism, where life-style is of paramount importance, rather than all the mumbo that we all know is just fairy tales.

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  4. I am one with you on this, Cro.
    The architecture, the skills of the makers are stunning and humbling in themselves. Then you wonder about the money expended on a few buying their place in heaven by this show...
    I get the feeling that a few of my family have moved away from organised religion as some had to change their religious allegiance to get and keep their jobs.
    Would you think a master harness maker would make better work if he changed his brand of Christianity?

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    1. What country was this in? Ireland? A friend of mine was offered £5,000 (I think) in Dubai, if he became a Muslim. All very strange.

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    2. London. Late 1800s. He had to be a protestant

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  5. The Christian faith is slowly dying because the foolishness of believing in a lot of tinpot theories has arrived. Historically the church scared people to death to believe because basically the congregation was ignorant, today not so.
    Rachel has just cleared up something that happened to me about hugging. When arriving at our church one day was enveloped in a big hug from someone I did not know, I was a bit cross at the time!

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    1. I haven't heard about this. I do know that British schools were concerned about a fashion for pupils to hug each other every morning.

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  6. Roger Scruton writes wonderfully about the Church of England in his fantastic book: England An Elegy. He writes about Anglicans not necessarily believing in God but practicing the traditions of the C of E.

    When I visit England I always spend time visiting ancient churches and graveyards.

    I believe in a God but I often wonder if he has given up on returning. Great post Cro.

    Thomas Hardy

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    1. I love most very old buildings, and churches in particular; there's usually more intricate workmanship in them. A long time ago I met lots of trainee priests who didn't believe in any of the invisibles, I expect it is the same today.

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  7. Thomas Hardy became something of an Agnostic but still loved attending his local Anglican church. He once saw a ghost in the graveyard. I have seen a ghost too.

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    1. I think one only sees ghosts if one believes in ghosts; I don't I'm afraid.

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  8. Our thoughts about religion and churches are similar. I don't think that any church would accept me into its fold as I have sinned too much and that is probably the same with you sir. Too much sinning.

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    1. Don't give away my secrets; some people still think I'm a saint!

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    2. You haven't read your Bible, YP. As far as I am aware the church, not least the Protestants Cro refers to, welcomes not only little children but, first and foremost, "sinners". Repent! And then some. Nothing to keep you more in line and on your toes than the torment of guilt.

      U

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  9. That is a lovely English church. I would love to hear a carol service there.
    I agree with you generally about religion. Here I just lump it all together with local traditions and take part when and where I want.

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    1. As a small boy I sang carols there, and even had to read a lesson from the bible in front of a huge audience.... I was petrified.

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  10. I miss the music and I miss the community and sometimes wish that I still believed. However, I don’t and I can never forgive a church that placed the church above the lives and safety of children and the vulnerable. The evil that they have done for centuries far outweighs the good.

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    1. And we are only now beginning to learn the full extent of their evil. I suppose we must thank the computer age for divulging the truth.

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  11. Do you not believe there's good and evil in the world? There are evil forces, namely Satan, whose delight is to infiltrate every human endeavor - including the church. If you don't know all there is to know about Christianity, how can you condemn it because of the manifestations of evil in broken individuals? I'm so sorry I can't fully put this into words, so I'll only say I pray for you, Cro, and all your friends. Have you ever read the New Testament - if civilization truly followed the teachings of Jesus, we'd be living in a paradise. The church is trying against ever mounting odds. Non-believers don't really know what it truly is they're not believing!!!

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    1. Moral teaching is not exclusive to those who say they believe in fairies. I think of myself as a good person. I have never committed a crime, I give to the poor, and am kind to animals. It certainly wouldn't make me a better person if I pretended to believe in Virgin births, or making water turn into wine. Be a good person, but don't try to link your goodness exclusively with invisible spooks; it isn't necessary.

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    2. I don't believe in fairies either!! I respect your opinion, otherwise I'd never read your blog. From it I know full well that you are what you say you are. Vive la difference!

      I would rather live my life
      as if there is a God, and die
      to find out there isn’t,
      than to live my life as if
      there isn’t and die to find
      out there is.

      Sorry if I've butted in with my 2 cents. I guess the devil made me do it!!

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    3. Pascal's wager was part of my mother's beliefs, but I think she was still extremely sceptical.

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    4. He also said "Men despise religion. They hate it and are afraid it might be true."

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  12. My parents only went to church or chapel for christenings and weddings and a possibly a couple of funerals - although my memory is vague on that last point. We children only went to Sunday school because we were made to go. One time when I was about 5 or 6 the Sunday school teacher gave me sixpence for reciting the Lord’s Prayer from memory. I took the money. It was 3 weeks pocket money. I decided then that religion was a racket. These days I go to churches to look at the architecture and the artworks and attend concerts and sometimes to light a candle and meditate on the supernatural.

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    1. SNAP! Very much my own experience. I've always enjoyed the singing, and looking around ancient churches, but the rest I can well do without.

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    2. That's funny, Gwil. To my poor father's exasperation (he couldn't believe(!) it) I loved Sunday School when in my late childhood and my early teens. He didn't approve; I went anyway. But then, I have always loved a good story. Still do. And, Cro, don't take it all literally.

      U

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  13. Enjoyed this tremendously. I actually laughed out loud re "eating flesh and drinking blood." Agree on all. I do not practice any religion. I admit to enjoying the beauty of some of the ceremonies. Went to 3 masses in Tuscany simply to listen to the priests singing. Used to sing in the choir and march in processions during holy days. Never liked the various religions competing w/ each other as if the best. Think of the Crusades. And, yes, the protection of the priests re abuse of children. My father was placed in an orphanage during the Depression and hated anything religious afterward. I know he never revealed some of his stories of horror. At any rate, enjoyed your blog very, very much. You are right on target.

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    1. Thanks Regina. I have a feeling we are not alone, hence the demise of so many old style religions. At the same time, I find increased adherence to some of the radical 'born again' cults quite worrying.

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  14. I belong Humanists UK Cro - being the nearest thing to how I feel about the whole thing. But that does not stop me really enjoying the beautiful old churches - of which is one.

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    1. We should ALL be humanists. I certainly called myself one for a long time. Recently, however, I've been so disgusted by all the appalling revelations of abuse from all over the world of religion, that I now call myself an atheist.

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  15. Sorry I missed out the word 'this' in that last phrase.

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  16. Great subject, Cro. Could write reams about, contribute many a thought on angles raised by both your post and comments left by others.

    Anyway, as not to outstay my welcome, I'll keep it short. So, and at its most basic, needless to say, I am now trying to work out where "your" church is. I know Surrey pretty well since FOS (father of son) grew up there and his parents lived there till they relocated to Yorkshire in their dotage. Any clues? Have terrible feeling that I should know considering how many years I have read your blog.

    Vaguely bugged by my ignorance, I will now turn to, no not Google, but my cherished copy of Simon Jenkin's wonderful "England's Thousand Best Churches" (published 1999).

    U

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    1. It is the church of St Peter and St Paul in the lovely old village of Lingfield.

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