For a non-church-goer, I probably seem strangely obsessed by churches. In fact churches have played an important part in my life since I was a wee choirboy in my Surrey village church.
I do love old churches. I love the architecture, the history, and the pivotal position they hold in a community. Regardless of whether or not I believe in their doctrine, I DO believe in their role as part of our traditional English society.
Above is our church here in Brighton, very close to where I live. In many ways it is not dis-similar to our village church in France, below, which still dominates life in certain respects.
Not only does everything of note take place around the eglise itself, in my French village, but it is the highest, and tallest building in the area, and can be seen from miles away. I think it's about 2 kms from our front door, and we can see the spire clearly; and hear the bells.
Two lovely old churches. Ours being very much alive with a full-time priest (Father D), a side-kick assistant curate priest (Father P), a choir, and several very keen acolytes who really enjoy doing all the organising (in what they call 'the catholic tradition'). A nice bunch of people, and all very friendly; we'll miss the annual Dog Show this year. It's on 21st June, and we'll be elsewhere.
The other (in France) has no regular priest (they do occasionally have a Polish one), just the occasional service, and the only regular activity being poorly-attended funerals.
It seems that France has fallen out-of-love with religion; they can't even find trainee priests. The church itself is slowly becoming simply an assembly point, or village hall; but at least they do look after the structure.
These days, the main 'church' event of the year is the annual Brocante (boot sale), this year on 27th July, with hundreds of stalls sited all around the perimeter of the church itself. It's always a wonderful day, and I never fail to buy a few bargain antiques. I'm looking forward to it (see below).
I'm confused. Old English churches tend to be C of E. Is this one Catholic as it has a 'Father'? I like old churches for their history and place in the landscape.
ReplyDeleteWe ask ourselves the same question. The church is definitely C of E, but it is very much run in the Catholic Tradition. Calling the local priest 'Father' is new to me too. Frankly I don't mind what they do or call themselves.
DeleteI'm surprised by your French church - I was under the impression that, although there is the clear separation of church and state, the French were strongly Catholic?
ReplyDeleteThey might say they are, but when it comes to practicality they probably aren't. A bit like people filling in forms saying that they are C of E.
DeleteI always understood that a 'high church' (bells and smells !!!) had a Father whilst ordinary parish churches had a Vicar or Rev.
ReplyDeleteI have just looked at the church web site and it says that it used to be Catholic, and now follows 'Catholic Tradition'. At the same time it is definitely a C of E church.
DeleteIt all sounds rather confusing!
ReplyDeleteMust confess to having had "my fill" of churches - irrespective of their denomination. Possibly it stems back to when church was compulsory at school. I know others who say the same thing, rather than nurturing religious belief for the future, it was a big turn-off.
As a schoolboy I had to attend a church (cathedral) service every morning, and twice on Sundays. I have never accepted all the mumbo-jumbo, but love the buildings. To me they are totally separate things.
DeleteMy wife's Uncle was vicar of Grosmont in Wales.... it is a very small village and had a very small population and an even smaller congregation.... but a huge church.
ReplyDeleteOne of the first things he did apparently, was to divide the church in two and used church funds to build a folding divider to create a small worship area [which was also easier to heat in winter] and a large open space with seats at the side and a small stage.... it became the focus of the village!!
The cathedral where I was at school was used as a market place, and one can still see the ruts made in the flagstones by horses and carts going in and out. It was a huge, dry, area, so why not use it?
DeleteI think the biggest difference between the two churches you are comparing is location rather than nationality - ie city vs hamlet/village. If you compared your French church to an English village church. In my tiny very rural English village, there is a service once a month, there are 15 churches in the benefice and two revs cover the benefice.
ReplyDeleteI never put C of E when filling out a form.
Yes, but in France rural folk used to be true god-fearing church-goers. Not now. We even had our own priest who lived in the attached presbytery; that presbytery is now a holiday 'gite'.
DeleteSame here. My village used to have a very healthy church going population and the village vicar lived in the village. The old vicarage was sold off.
DeleteThe church doesn’t even control the cemetery. It is now run by the parish council.
Church and State are separate in France. The cemeteries are controlled by the State, and are therefore apart from the Churches. You can't even get married in a Church in France; you are married by the Mayor, then, if you like, can have a blessing in the Church..
DeleteI like old churches so much I bought one 😄
ReplyDeleteAnother Victor Kiam!!!
DeleteI am also a non-believer who loves to visit old churches. They contain the echoes of people long gone - christenings, weddings, funerals, harvest festivals, Christmas and Easter services. Even their construction materials and styles are fascinating - evolving through time. It is sad to come across churches that have been decommissioned through lack of priests and congregations. Many others struggle.
ReplyDeleteOur attitudes are similar. Churches are a very important part of our heritage.
DeleteChurch Going by Philip Larkin comes to mind. I always visit old Anglican churches when I visit Blighty.
ReplyDeleteThey are some of the most interesting buildings. All of history is there!
DeleteTwo beautiful old stone churches. I'm surprised too that the French one isn't well attended. It often depends on the priest, father, reverand. One of our churches has a new priest who opens up the little neighbourhood chapels, looks after the poor, visits in the Parish and doesn't give long services. He's very popular and has far more attendees
ReplyDeleteAlways has a smile and easy laugh. No 'preaching'
DeleteThose days are long gone in France. Here our church has a really thriving community; even Lady M makes afternoon tea for certain groups who attend music sessions, etc. Everyone chips-in.
DeleteOften places of great architecture and art.
ReplyDeleteExactly. That's why I love them so much.
DeleteOld churches are magnificent architecture.
ReplyDeleteUS churches are new in comparison and (in my opinion) much less attractive.
Membership at US churches continues to decline. Some Unitarian churches are aligned politically and very active in that vein. Catholic churches, unless there is a well-loved priest have a small and ageing parish. Despite these factors, US churches still have wealth and pay no taxes.
The C of E is a very wealthy institution. They do good works, but most of their wealth is invested in land, property, etc.
DeleteIt is most befitting that you should mention churches today of all days, the Pentecost, the outpouring of the holy ghost. Yes, I know religion doesn't interest you. However, we are - whether we want to or not - beholden to our cultural tapestry.
ReplyDeleteLike you I love churches. Peace, quiet, contemplation. Though one may also sit in the middle of a meadow, on top of a hill. on a log in a forest, to get a similar effect of being connected.
Alas, not all churches (particularly in the middle of nowhere country side) are open to the public [outside service]. Though have found that if you can locate the vicarage or church warden you will be given the key. On trust.
I may have mentioned this to you before, in similar context, on my book shelves you'll find Simon Jenkins "England's thousand best churches". Can't say I agree with the title. What constitutes a "best" - in any sphere of life?
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There are too many thieves about for our churches to be open to all-comers. I find that very sad. Also many cathedrals, etc, now charge an entry fee. Crazy!
DeleteInterestingly, the largest church insurer in England encourages churches to be unlocked during daylight hours. insurance premiums are lower if the church is open during the day.
DeleteAs for cathedrals charging entrance fees, just think of the cost of upkeep of those magnificent buildings.
Asking for donations might prove more beneficial.
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